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rated:
*** I have significantly edited down this original post to only the important details after numerous complaints of the length ***

Hi fatwallet community, very long time reader, but rare poster here. I know I see the posts here sometimes about landlords and rental issues, etc so
I was hoping it was okay to post this issue that I have that JUST happened and see if I could get the fatwallet community to weigh in on the situation.

Our current landlord of almost 3 years now (though we have lived here for almost 15 years now just the original landlord sadly sold the home)
I thought we have had a good relationship with him. He seemed like a good guy. No disputes , no tension. We always pay on time and
we have always let him in the home anytime he wants even without proper notice. We were not like friends, but I thought we had a good
business relationship.

About a year ago, not even that maybe, but somewhere around there
he installed a brand new front door and storm door before it.

We recently had an issue, it was just abnormally windy in our area, even more
so than I think we realized, and we were opening our door to leave the house and some crazy gust of wind just swept
the door away and badly bent it back, like it just tore up the closer that is attached to the door.
So then the door did not shut all the way/properly, but it was not a huge deal, not to us anyways, it was hardly
anything that was an emergency at the time. Well a few days later and the entire storm door falls out
of the frame! We catch it and door was undamaged but it just came out from the house.
I assume the wind damage loosened it, kinda pulled the nails out and weakened it and we just did not
think to check for that as nothing like this has ever happened before. But I can already see that someone
is going to chime in and say that's out fault and should have paid more attention to it, and if that's what you
believe then I accept and understand that.

Anyways on to today and I just had the one of the most crazy and unexpected experiences of my life with about anyone.
We told the landlord what happened yesterday and today he came by with his usual handyman
to fix it. And he was just a totally different person, like a complete 360 like someone had taken
over his body. Again we were not friends or anything but I thought we were on good terms.
we had no problem with him, I thought he had no problem with us, we always pay on-time and
I feel like we take care of the place, the wind thing was a freak accident.

But anyways I knew yesterday that he was just off and something was different, I could
tell he was mad, I dunno if he thought we did it on purpose or something, I don't really know
but I knew something was off. He called me back later in the day and said he would be out today
to fix it and he wanted to get up on the roof to look at something unrelated as well. I said okay.

So fast forward to today and man was he in a bad mood, I mean just so far from who he normally
seemed to be, he was just not happy. He started working on it and then he pretty sternly said
he was going to have to charge me for this and send me a bill. Okay so maybe this is my fault
here for being ignorant, but I did really not know who was at fault here. I said (I never said "no" or "I won't pay" or anything like that)
something like I did not know who was responsible it was just the wind, it was really not our fault and man did he just start to go off on me.
I was just asking questions and I thought in a totally polite and respectful manner, but man did he go off, he went on about
how its our responsibility to take care of the place, we have to maintain and take care of things. We broke the door and we are
responsible for fixing it. He was incredibly hostile and basically yelling at me. I would give anything to have had the incident recorded.

I guess I was supposed to just shut up and say "okay" I mean maybe it is my responsibility and that's fine, I honestly have no idea.

But I simply ask (and again I think politely) well how much is this going to cost and he is just so crazy angry, he just says
I don't know, I have to charge you for these parts and what Dave charges me (Dave the handyman) and I will send you a bill
and you have to pay it. Again, I feel in a very nice way I say, well okay I mean if you want us to be responsible for it
then do you want me to take care of it, do you want me to hire someone and have it done/repaired and he says no
that's not happening, dave does good work, dave is fixing the place, he (the landlord) is responsible for the place and
making sure the work is done right. I said ok, I like dave, he is a nice guy, but you just said I am responsible.
Shouldn't I get to pick who does the work then and how much it's going to cost ? you wont even tell me a price.
And got this guy is just fuming mad, like I am stunned and floored, I have never seen anything quite like it.
Seriously it was just straight up nuts, I even flat out said something like wow, I am sorry if I said anything wrong
but what are you so mad about, I do not understand why you are so angry with me. And he is like something
about me not listening, and I was like I am just asking questions. He is yelling at me to read my lease and he
goes on to just completely put me down and crush me in the real "hey I have the power and I am rich and you
are nothing" kinda way. He says when I am the owner of the house and my name is on the house I can
do what I want, he says he does things his way and that's that, he said get a lawyer and take me to court
I will crush you in 4 seconds. I am just like WTF as I still don't even know what he is mad about?
I never raised my voice and was nothing but polite and I never said I would NOT pay. I was simply asking
some questions and this guy was just going off on me. I was just stunned, just beyond stunned more than I can
describe here, like a dr jackal mr Hyde kinda thing. I am like who is this person, WTF is he so mad for
and what is going on !!!!!! It was just an unbelievable conversation. You guys just wont understand.

Look so to sum up here and what my questions are and what I need help with:

1. So bottom line is the renter responsible for things like a door ?
I am sure people will be up my ass for being ignorant and not knowing but
we never had incidents like this happen in all our years of renting. I guess
I blindly assumed the landlord, as the owner of the home was responsible
for everything, I thought that's why people rent, especially since owning a home
is almost always cheaper.


2. If it is my responsibility then is it seriously okay for him to just waltz in and dictate all
the terms of it? I mean he is basically saying that he can have anything he wants repaired
at anytime at any price he determines and I just need to shut up and pay it, that was almost
exactly what he told me. I mean am I crazy in thinking that does not sound right ?

I dunno, honestly I am about shaking. Its not so much about the door even, I could give a f*ck at this point
I just cannot believe how this guy went off on me. Just flat out stunned.I feel sick and don't even know
what to do because this guy is our landlord and we are under a lease for the rest of the year so I mean
we are stuck with him ! The way he treated me just now I wish there was a way I could get out of the lease
and I would rather move ANYWHERE, even to a slum than live one more day under him.

I swear I wish I had it all recorded or on video or something, it was just flat out crazy, and I am just in a daze
right now, taken completely by surprise (because again he always seemed like a nice, happy, and reasonable guy before)
I am stunned that I have to live under this persons control for the next year. He just belittled me
and made me feel like nothing, completely rubbing my face that he has all the power and 100 times
the money I ever will (he owns a lot of property's in town I think around 10-12)

I was nothing but nice to this guy, always have been, always pay rent on time (I even take it to him sometimes
if I think the mail will be cutting it too close) and we certainly do not abuse the place.

I am just astonished by the treatment today, just truly astonished.

thank you in advance fatwallet community.

 

Member Summary
Most Recent Posts
Power to win what?


You don't have to pay him.

jerosen (Apr. 23, 2017 @ 10:50a) |

Power to win anything. He could probably afford an army of the best lawyers, I would struggle to buy one (I mean I could... (more)

darkhunter (Apr. 23, 2017 @ 11:08a) |

I can assure you he will not be sending a team of lawyers (or even 1 lawyer) after you to try and squeeze a $50 repair b... (more)

jerosen (Apr. 23, 2017 @ 11:48a) |

TL;DR
My storm door was damaged by the wind and fell off a few days later. My landlord wants me to pay for it, but I'm not sure if I should. Also, he was acting like a jerk.
Staff Summary
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rated:
Depends on the state

rated:
Well I took a stab at cliff notes but couldn't quite finish.

OP gets new landlord. Landlord has the audacity to buy new appliances and make repairs. OP would rather tha landlord let the property fall apart.
Around a year ago the landlord installed new front door with storm door.
A gust of wind swept the door open and damaged the door/hinge. Storm door falls out of frame a few days later.
Landlord came with handyman to fix door. Landlord was mad.
Landlord wants to bill OP for the repair. OP doesn't want to pay because damage was from the wind. Landlord gets madder.

OP wants to know if he should pay for door or something... I got bored and didn't read the whole essay.

rated:
If you didn't cause the damage then you are not responsible for paying for repairs.

Is the landlord accusing you of damaging the door? Or does he think you're responsible for the wind?

I'm guessing he's accusing you of damaging the door. Your argument is that you didn't do it.

He can bill you. You can ignore his bill. He'll have to sue you to get the money out of you.

You might want to find somewhere else to live. You and landlord don't seem to see eye to eye in general.

BTW, he's well within his rights to install a new fridge or door. If he comes over and visits the place you do NOT have to let him inside if you don't want to. If he's not letting himself in then thats perfectly fine, he doesn't have to give you 24 hours notice just to come to the house.

If you prefer a absentee slumlord then you can probably find one somewhere.

He is being unreasonable if he thinks you should pay for the door and its not your responsibility to pay for damage caused by wind or other weather events.

disclosure : I'm a landlord.

rated:
Sorry, nothing to add. My head started hurting and I had to stop reading it.

rated:
darkhunter said:   
 I just had the worst experience of my life with about anyone.

 

  

If this is the worst experience of your life with someone then it seems you have led a very charmed life.

 

rated:
1. The storm door is not your fault or responsibility.
2. Unless you break something, it's the landlord's responsibility to maintain the property and repair any issues.

Familiarize yourself with your state and local (if applicable) landlord-tenant law so you know what he is allowed or not allowed to do.

rated:
jerosen said:   Well I took a stab at cliff notes but couldn't quite finish.

OP gets new landlord. Landlord has the audacity to buy new appliances and make repairs. OP would rather tha landlord let the property fall apart.
Around a year ago the landlord installed new front door with storm door.
A gust of wind swept the door open and damaged the door/hinge. Storm door falls out of frame a few days later.
Landlord came with handyman to fix door. Landlord was mad.
Landlord wants to bill OP for the repair. OP doesn't want to pay because damage was from the wind. Landlord gets madder.

OP wants to know if he should pay for door or something... I got bored and didn't read the whole essay.



 

  I know it was long but people usually ask for details in these kinda posts or say "there must be more to the story" etc so I tried to tell
everything while it was still fresh in my mind.

Also I never said I would not pay at any time, I simply did not know if that fell on me and was asking questions.

Again at this point I could care less about the door, I would pay for it 10 times over if it would
get me away from this guy. It was the sheer rudeness and him yelling at me for no reason at all that has me upset.
I have never been anything but polite and accommodating to him and have let him in the house anytime he wanted
even on no notice at all.

rated:
jerosen said:   
darkhunter said:   
 I just had the worst experience of my life with about anyone.

 

  

If this is the worst experience of your life with someone then it seems you have led a very charmed life.

 

Well okay, I mean this was not the worst day of my life or anything, I mean more I just don't think I have had another human being treat
me that way for no apparent reason. It was just grossly unwarranted in my opinion. I just cannot convey in words how rude he was
you guys would have just have had to of been there.
 

rated:
darkhunter said:   
jerosen said:   Well I took a stab at cliff notes but couldn't quite finish.

OP gets new landlord. Landlord has the audacity to buy new appliances and make repairs. OP would rather tha landlord let the property fall apart.
Around a year ago the landlord installed new front door with storm door.
A gust of wind swept the door open and damaged the door/hinge. Storm door falls out of frame a few days later.
Landlord came with handyman to fix door. Landlord was mad.
Landlord wants to bill OP for the repair. OP doesn't want to pay because damage was from the wind. Landlord gets madder.

OP wants to know if he should pay for door or something... I got bored and didn't read the whole essay.



 

  I know it was long but people usually ask for details in these kinda posts or say "there must be more to the story" etc so I tried to tell
everything while it was still fresh in my mind.

Also I never said I would not pay at any time, I simply did not know if that fell on me and was asking questions.

Again at this point I could care less about the door, I would pay for it 10 times over if it would
get me away from this guy. It was the sheer rudeness and him yelling at me for no reason at all that has me upset.
I have never been anything but polite and accommodating to him and have let him in the house anytime he wanted
even on no notice at all.


Its good to have extra detail, but if the post is toooooo long then people won't take the time to read it.   

You should not have to pay nor should he require you to.

The guy sounds like he may have anger management problems.    But he may be upset if he thinks you just trashed the brand new door he put in then you acted like it was no big deal or if he thinks your story about the wind damaging it is BS.   (I'm imagining his thinking, not doubting your story)    

Was it made VERY clear that the wind damaged the door?       Does the landlord dispute that?


But I would be curious to hear his side of the story.    As a landlord I'm puzzled why you'd be unhappy with him buying you a new fridge or visiting.   ... ?   OK I get you don't want to be bothered, but new appliances aren't an imposition from an a-hole.

 

rated:
Generally, the landlord gets to decide who repairs his property, regardless of whether tenant is financially responsible for the damage or not.

If I am reading what you typed correctly, then it seems that you did not notify the landlord of the initial damage from the wind, rather you waited until the problem got worse and the door fell. I would guess that was the source of the landlord's frustration and why he feels you are responsible. Had you told him immediately about the first problem then the secondary damages could have been mitigated. I'd wait to see what he tells you you owe for the door. If it's $25 then just pay it and move on. If it's $500 then that is ridiculous. If it is somewhere in between then perhaps offer to pay half, and/or try again to explain about the wind.

Jerosen already said this:If the landlord comes by, you are home, and he asks you if he can enter the house and you agree then he did nothing wrong. If you disagree then he can instead give you notice and come in anyway (in my area it's 24 hour notice).

rated:
jerosen said:   If you didn't cause the damage then you are not responsible for paying for repairs.

Is the landlord accusing you of damaging the door? Or does he think you're responsible for the wind?

I'm guessing he's accusing you of damaging the door. Your argument is that you didn't do it.

He can bill you. You can ignore his bill. He'll have to sue you to get the money out of you.

You might want to find somewhere else to live. You and landlord don't seem to see eye to eye in general.

BTW, he's well within his rights to install a new fridge or door. If he comes over and visits the place you do NOT have to let him inside if you don't want to. If he's not letting himself in then thats perfectly fine, he doesn't have to give you 24 hours notice just to come to the house.

If you prefer a absentee slumlord then you can probably find one somewhere.

He is being unreasonable if he thinks you should pay for the door and its not your responsibility to pay for damage caused by wind or other weather events.

disclosure : I'm a landlord.
 

  
thank you for the reply. Look people I am not asking for a slumlord here, but there's a fine line too. I do not think its unreasonable for us to not want strangers in our home every day
which is how it was for a while. Some things are not emergency's and do not need done, these were all cosmetic things and nothing to
do with the home, the home was not going to fall apart if you will if they were not done. Obviously like anyone else we want a landlord
that takes care of problems as they arise. If there is a plumbing problem or roof leaking  or whatever then we would hope he comes
by and takes care of it promptly.

This part was really irrelevant to the main story of the door, perhaps I should not have included it. But he has stopped
by an awful lot of times, day after day, doing little oddball picky things. And I have been nothing but nice and accomodating
in all of it and let him do whatever he wanted even though we did not like much of what we did, we would have done different lighting, etc.
but hey I knew it was his house and so I was like he can do as he see's fit. I never made one complaint to him.

My point was more I truly feel like I have been super accommodating and polite and the fact that he just went ballistic on
me from out of no where was quite the shock.

I again have no problem paying for the door if it is my legal right to do so, I was simply asking, and now from a couple
of reply's here it seems like I am actually not responsible. But of course I will wait for more people to chime in.

rated:
jerosen said:   
darkhunter said:   
jerosen said:   Well I took a stab at cliff notes but couldn't quite finish.

OP gets new landlord. Landlord has the audacity to buy new appliances and make repairs. OP would rather tha landlord let the property fall apart.
Around a year ago the landlord installed new front door with storm door.
A gust of wind swept the door open and damaged the door/hinge. Storm door falls out of frame a few days later.
Landlord came with handyman to fix door. Landlord was mad.
Landlord wants to bill OP for the repair. OP doesn't want to pay because damage was from the wind. Landlord gets madder.

OP wants to know if he should pay for door or something... I got bored and didn't read the whole essay.



 

  I know it was long but people usually ask for details in these kinda posts or say "there must be more to the story" etc so I tried to tell
everything while it was still fresh in my mind.

Also I never said I would not pay at any time, I simply did not know if that fell on me and was asking questions.

Again at this point I could care less about the door, I would pay for it 10 times over if it would
get me away from this guy. It was the sheer rudeness and him yelling at me for no reason at all that has me upset.
I have never been anything but polite and accommodating to him and have let him in the house anytime he wanted
even on no notice at all.


Its good to have extra detail, but if the post is toooooo long then people won't take the time to read it.   

You should not have to pay nor should he require you to.

The guy sounds like he may have anger management problems.    But he may be upset if he thinks you just trashed the brand new door he put in then you acted like it was no big deal or if he thinks your story about the wind damaging it is BS.   (I'm imagining his thinking, not doubting your story)    

Was it made VERY clear that the wind damaged the door?       Does the landlord dispute that?


But I would be curious to hear his side of the story.    As a landlord I'm puzzled why you'd be unhappy with him buying you a new fridge or visiting.   ... ?   OK I get you don't want to be bothered, but new appliances aren't an imposition from an a-hole.

 

  
No I do not think he at all disputes it was wind, I mean he is local and lives in town, he knows the insane wind we had for a couple days unless he was out of town
or something. He was just super angry. And yeah I try to put myself in his shoes as well and if I was a landlord, no of course I would not
want to see any of my property damaged and yes it must be frustrating because it was pretty new.

Look I am not unhappy per-se about getting a fridge, my thinking is more if this guy is so worried about money that he can't
afford whatever it was to nail that door back on the frame why go out and buy a new fridge and we did not ask for it and the previous one worked?
That seems like throwing away money to me? Why not wait till the fridge stops working and then go get a new one? I guess his
point of view would be why let things get that bad, if its old its old, ok fine, I just find it odd that he is someone who has no problem wheeling
working appliances down to the curb for the trash would get so bent out of shape over nailing a door back in the frame.

rated:
darkhunter said:   We told the landlord what happened yesterday
 

  
I don't think this is your fault at all, but his reaction would definitely depend on how you worded it. I would have left out all of the irrelevant details, "we came home and it was on the ground". What exactly did you say?

rated:
It boils down to a judge believing the  tenant is responsible for the way the door was broken or not. Landlord decides who does the repairs (within reason) not the tenant so you will likely lose on that one. You have voluntarily allowed the landlord entry to make repairs and improvements so you can forget that part. 90% of the post was setting up the fact that the landlord is a jerk and the tenant is great. The way the landlord wastes his money on new appliances is really not the tenants concern.

rated:
taylor0987 said:   Generally, the landlord gets to decide who repairs his property, regardless of whether tenant is financially responsible for the damage or not.

If I am reading what you typed correctly, then it seems that you did not notify the landlord of the initial damage from the wind, rather you waited until the problem got worse and the door fell. I would guess that was the source of the landlord's frustration and why he feels you are responsible. Had you told him immediately about the first problem then the secondary damages could have been mitigated. I'd wait to see what he tells you you owe for the door. If it's $25 then just pay it and move on. If it's $500 then that is ridiculous. If it is somewhere in between then perhaps offer to pay half, and/or try again to explain about the wind.

Jerosen already said this:If the landlord comes by, you are home, and he asks you if he can enter the house and you agree then he did nothing wrong. If you disagree then he can instead give you notice and come in anyway (in my area it's 24 hour notice).

  
You are correct sir/Mame, I do take responsibility for that. That's my ignorance for not knowing/understanding. My thought was simply that only what I guess is called "the closer" a simple part like this:
http://www.truevalue.com//catalog/product.jsp?productId=21838&parent 


I miss-thought that was the only damage. It really just never came in my mind that the whole door would just come out like that. Call it lack of experience I guess, I have never had something like this happen.
If that makes it my mistake and my responsibility I am fine with that. To me it seemed like a non-emergency thing, it seemed something basic and minor
and I was simply going to point out the damage next time he was around, because again, he's always around and bugging us. I did not want to bother him
with something that seemed trivial.

I will say this though, we caught the door when it was coming out and there is no real damage we can see
to the door. Its not like he went out and bought another. Also when it came out we saw that it was only attached by 5 extremely
small and thin nails. I am talking nails that you would hang a picture with inside your home. That's it and this door is crazy heavy.

So some will say this is irrelevant but I think he did a shit job originally and he knows it cause I saw the nails he put
in this time and they are massive, night and day difference. I personally feel like his handyman is not this amazing craftsman
the landlord thinks he his, I seem him as more probably the cheapest guy in down and does a sloppy job.
A super nice guy don't get me wrong, and I am not real Handy at all so maybe I have no right to judge but he clearly
did a far better job of hanging the door this time than before so it begs the question why didn't he just do it right the first time?

For what its worth the neighbors door, also renting from him, is bent to some degree as well, not as bad as ours but same situation.
I am definitely going to tell her to make sure its secure to avoid something like this.

As for the house entry, yes I am aware I could have refused him entry at any time, made him give me notice
But I was trying to point out how accommodating I have been and letting him in anytime in an effort for us
to have a nice relationship, he is my landlord after all and that gives him a great deal of power over me.
I obviously do not want to be on his bad side though I guess now I am but I have truly no idea why. If you
all could have seen just how bad he went off on me you would all be quite surprised I think, I really am not exaggerating.
That's the part that disgusts me.

Even if I was in the wrong for not calling him up the very second the wind incident happened, I don't think it gives one human being
the right to treat another human being the way he was to me. It was completely uncalled for and I never said I would not pay or
not take responsibility. I simply asked some questions.
 

rated:
I tried to read it all, but it was too much. Based on what I got from it is, he thinks you are responsible since you didn't tell him that the door was broken in the first place. I don't know much about doors, so I don't know if this is correct or not, but I think he thinks the door part that was broken was a contributing factor in the door falling out. I don't know if that is true or not, and it may even depend on the door. But if it was, then you should be responsible.

If you don't tell him that your kitchen sink is leaking because it is a small leak, and it ends up damaging the cabinet, you are responsible.

I have never heard of a tenant complaining because they got a new fridge and new door or the landlord actually fixing things. That is a new one.

Based on what you said, it sounds like you don't a landlord being around, so you didn't tell him. It doesn't matter if you think it is a big deal or not, you have a responsibility to notify him when something breaks. As a homeowner, I know that if you don't take of the little things, they turn into big things.

He may have handled the situation wrong, but that doesn't mean he wasn't right to be pissed or to charge you. You need to review your lease agreement, and state and city ordinances to find out who is responsible.

rated:
darkhunter said:   No I do not think he at all disputes it was wind, I mean he is local and lives in town, he knows the insane wind we had for a couple days unless he was out of town
or something. He was just super angry....
 

  
That sounds like you may be making some assumptions about his opinion of the wind or how the door was damaged.

What exactly was the exchange between you and him about the door and how it was damaged?   DId you explicitly blame the wind and clearly say that you didn't damage the door but it was the wind that did it?

THe guy may be a crackpot who flew off the handle for no reason and wants to bill you for wind damage that you're not responsible for.   Or he may not believe the wind did it.   Or maybe it wasn't even clear to him that the wind did it and this could be a misunderstanding.    He has no reason to yell and scream at you or threaten to sue you, so he's got problems with anger for sure.    But maybe he got mad because he thinks you negligently trashed his brand new door.

I don't mean to interrogate you on this so no problem if you want to drop the line of discussion if you have something better to do.   I'm just trying to help make sense of what happened.   It is possible he is misunderstanding what caused the damage, and its even possible simply clarifying that to him could resolve the issue.   But it is more likely he's just a jerk.


 

rated:
jerosen said:   
darkhunter said:   No I do not think he at all disputes it was wind, I mean he is local and lives in town, he knows the insane wind we had for a couple days unless he was out of town
or something. He was just super angry....

  
That sounds like you may be making some assumptions about his opinion of the wind or how the door was damaged.

What exactly was the exchange between you and him about the door and how it was damaged?   DId you explicitly blame the wind and clearly say that you didn't damage the door but it was the wind that did it?

THe guy may be a crackpot who flew off the handle for no reason and wants to bill you for wind damage that you're not responsible for.   Or he may not believe the wind did it.   Or maybe it wasn't even clear to him that the wind did it and this could be a misunderstanding.    He has no reason to yell and scream at you or threaten to sue you, so he's got problems with anger for sure.    But maybe he got mad because he thinks you negligently trashed his brand new door.

I don't mean to interrogate you on this so no problem if you want to drop the line of discussion if you have something better to do.   I'm just trying to help make sense of what happened.   It is possible he is misunderstanding what caused the damage, and its even possible simply clarifying that to him could resolve the issue.   But it is more likely he's just a jerk.


 

  
First I appreciate all the reply's, I may not be able to reply to everyone but thank you.

Yes I believe it was 100% crystal clear that I explained it was the wind. It was just unusually crazy , he is also local, like 5 miles away so he probably experienced
the same. I don't think either of us dispute that it was the wind. He just went on about how it was our responsibility to take care of the place, he did not really
care about what happened. He just said I was responsible, and he could fix it and charge me whatever he liked for it was essentially what was said.

That was the part I found issue with, I did not realize a landlord had THAT much control and power. I mean he could essentially
tell me his cost was $500 and that's okay and I should shut up and pay it ????  that did not sound right to me.

And again I never said I would not pay, I am really not looking to take him to court, I will probably pay in the end, I just thought
the whole situation was absurd and I wanted to know if I really was supposed to pay or not. That's all really.

Look also I understand that people think I am the asshole because I am complaining that he is making improvements.
I am not mad about getting a new fridge, it was not needed, but ok fine, its nice.

I do not think any of you who are homeowners will understand because maybe you just have not been in this position.
Maybe those of you who rent will understand some.

I think like anyone we want a happy in-between. Of course we do not want a slum lord don't be silly.
But we don't necessarily want strangers in our home all the time. Is that what you homeowners would
really want? Its hard to sum it all up but I really felt like this guy was excessively bothering us.
Dragging things out longer because he was unprepared, needed more parts, his "handyman" messing it up, etc.
For a while he was just coming to our home nearly every day and this went on for weeks.

If you all want to think me a bad person because it felt so nice to actually not have him in our home for a change
then fine but that was how I felt. I am a very kind and reasonable and non-confrontational kinda person.
Even though I was not thrilled with him being in our home all the time, I never complained and let him have free reign
and even be in there when no one is home, I think that is trusting and generous.

Yes in hindsight maybe I should have spoke up more and tried to be like hey do you have to come by so often, etc
maybe try and negotiate something, but I was just trying to be a super nice guy I guess and stay in his good graces.
Again you people that own probably do not understand. A land lord has power over with you so why piss off someone
that controls your life in that way??? I just wanted to be on friendly terms with him. He seemed like a nice guy I saw no
reason to provoke a "war" with him.

Then today all I know is, it basically turned into some kinda dick waving pissing contest kinda thing. I guess
somehow he felt, I dunno, slighted that I asked some very basic questions, like in a kinda, my god how could
you question me, I am god, I am your land lord, I know all, you need to shut the f*ck up , kinda way.
He did not say f*ck but that's the real tone and feel of it. It was like all he wanted to do was exert his power over me
and make me think like I am a complete low life lower tier human being because I do not have his money and power.

It was completely disgusting and I do not think one person would think otherwise if they had seen it.

I do not know what I did to elicit that kinda response from someone. It really felt awful.

Call me a baby if you want, oh bo-hoo my feelings are hurt but I don't think anyone out there would
have appreciated being treated that way.  

That's what I am sick about right now. If it was just paying for the door, I could give a shit at this point.
I am under a lease for the rest of the year and have to live under this guy now! I thought we were on good
terms but now I guess he hates me. What is life going to be like now for the rest of the year?
I mean what kinda anguish is this guy going to cause me now all over a stupid door ???
 

rated:
Storm door should be installed with screws not nails... if installed with nails... bad installation.

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BPANZER1 said:   Storm door should be installed with screws not nails... if installed with nails... bad installation.
  
Nails I promise you, tiny nails that would hold a picture frame in a home. I am not joking.

Even now, from what I saw (I walked away after our argument) what was used was just bigger better nails, not screws
but again I did not supervise the whole thing, things were way way too tense at that point.

rated:
I wasn't trying to paint you as the bad guy. From what I'm hearing you're right and he's wrong.

But sometimes we do get a biased opinion here and the real story is more complex. I did find it unusual that you'd complain about getting a new fridge or coming to the house. So ... maybe it was possible your expectations were off too.
BUT you later explained the guy was over at your house daily for weeks, and thats simply unusual/ excessive as far as I'm concerned so I can see how that would be annoying.

So then maybe I thought, maybe its possible he just misunderstood the cause of the damage or he simply did't believe you. You've clarified that it was made clear to him that the wind did the damage. So he's not confused about that. Its still feasible he just chooses to believe the wind could not do that and wrongly blames you for it. He would be wrong of course.

THe landlord is a jerk for yelling and threating to sue you.


You should not pay the landlord for the damage.

The only reason I'd pay him is if its not too expensive and you just want to bide your time until you find somewhere else to live rather than risk him screwing you over if you break the lease early. On principle you shouldn't pay him a dime. But sometimes we choose our battles.

rated:
This isn't much different from any other apartment damage thread here. Keep in mind, he can't make you pay anything other than rent, Only a judge can do that. But that doesn't mean he has to agree with it or even be polite to you. You might have to fight him on upon move-out if he deducts it from your deposit, but there's nothing he can do now over than sue for eviction. Which is extremely rare if you're otherwise a good tenant.

rated:
jerosen said:   I wasn't trying to paint you as the bad guy. From what I'm hearing you're right and he's wrong.

But sometimes we do get a biased opinion here and the real story is more complex. I did find it unusual that you'd complain about getting a new fridge or coming to the house. So ... maybe it was possible your expectations were off too.
BUT you later explained the guy was over at your house daily for weeks, and thats simply unusual/ excessive as far as I'm concerned so I can see how that would be annoying.

So then maybe I thought, maybe its possible he just misunderstood the cause of the damage or he simply did't believe you. You've clarified that it was made clear to him that the wind did the damage. So he's not confused about that. Its still feasible he just chooses to believe the wind could not do that and wrongly blames you for it. He would be wrong of course.

THe landlord is a jerk for yelling and threating to sue you.


You should not pay the landlord for the damage.

The only reason I'd pay him is if its not too expensive and you just want to bide your time until you find somewhere else to live rather than risk him screwing you over if you break the lease early. On principle you shouldn't pay him a dime. But sometimes we choose our battles.


I appreciate the insight jerosen. And I totally understand all that too, two sides to every story, i'm sure he has his opinion, I would actually like to know what that is cause again I have no idea why he is so angry.
I suppose now all I can do is wait and see if he does actually send a bill and for how much it is. Its just sad this happened and I feel like it makes me have to, in a way, kinda have to live in fear and be stressed out now.
Not about the bill but just like wow I have this terrible relationship with this guy now, what else is he going to do to me??? Its only April. How miserable is this dude gonna make my life now
and what is it going to be like when I eventually move out?  I can't help but feel like a mountain of hell is coming my way now, but I did not even do anything.
I mean I hope I am wrong but it was just a scary and unusual situation. I just saw no reason for someone to be THAT bent out of shape. But maybe the guy has
some personal problem in his life right now, I can sympathize with that but still ...
 

rated:
That's 10 minutes of my life I will never get back reading the original post..

rated:
I know it's hard, but I'd try not to make this an emotional issue. It boils down to a disagreement over the source of the damage to the door. None of the other stuff matters.

rated:
As a side note, given that I am very unhappy with my situation now,  how hard is it generally
to get out of a lease early ???  Are these things usually pretty ironclad or if you get a lawyer
can they generally find some technicality to get you out  ????

Not that I have anywhere else to go at the moment but my credit is outstanding.
I could buy if I wanted to, but its very much a sellers market right now, so little inventory
and Sky high prices. That's a whole different story. I could rent somewhere else
but really can't afford to pay two rents at once, new place and pay him out till years end.

But I will be honest, I do not feel comfortable with him as my landlord any longer.
Maybe I sound like a pussy, and no I don't think he is going to show up and stab me,
but just a general, I do not want to live with this kinda tension and hate.

rated:
I have been on all sides of this fence. I rented for over 20 years and I lived in houses, large apartment complexes, four-plexes, etc. I have also owned investment property, and I am a homeowner. I know what it is like to have a landlord take care of things and also never take care of things. I have had bad maintenance and safety issues while renting. One time a kid threw a ball and broke my window. When they replaced the glass, they forgot to caulk it. I was out of town and there was a storm and the glass fell out and rain soaked my apartment. When I got home, I had mold growing on my bed. 

So, I do get it. I have been stuck in a lease and couldn't leave and my next door neighbor had band practice every night over my head. It sucks. 

As it was nailed in, it was shoddy work and you should not be responsible. That was left out in the initial post. 

I have had landlords freak out over minor repairs and it is baffling at times, but he bought it is an investment property, so when this happen, it is hard for some of them to understand it is part of it. Especially if they are new to it. They just see it as a headache and money. Not right, but it happens. 

I think your main concern is how to move on. Was he an ass? Yes, but there could have been 100 other things going on and it happens. Can your bf talk to him and say, "This door thing got out of hand, we love living here and appreciate the updates you have done, and we hope to continue having a good relationship going forward."  Maybe if they have a man to man convo (I hate this, but some guys need this) and you are removed from the convo. You are very upset and when I am like that it is hard to put your emotions aside and get out of that place and it normally comes across.  

Personally, I think you have to figure out what you want and what is the bottom line goal that you need (normally different things). You may want an apology (not likely) but your bottom line need is for your remaining time to be uneventful. Decide what it is worth to make it happen. I personally would wait a few days and just call him and say that you are sorry. You made a honest mistake and you hate it that things went south and you appreciate the updates and you hope that you can both start over and move on. Short and sweet, don't explain or justify or make a case out of it. If he is an ass, just say, "i am sorry you feel that way" and end the call. But, the majority of times, an apology fixes it. 

Sometimes you just have to suck it up for the greater good and you will know that you did what you could at least. If it continues, I would consider looking at other places and asking him if you could be released from your lease. 

Good luck. 

rated:
TravelerMSY said:   I know it's hard, but I'd try not to make this an emotional issue. It boils down to a disagreement over the source of the damage to the door. None of the other stuff matters.
  
Ok, fair enough, thank you. I probably do need to take some time to calm down and come down as this is
something fresh that just happened, there is a lot of emotion right now.

rated:
It's not a bad idea to get out of that situation.

Contact a local landlord-tenant agency and they often can provide you advice as good as an attorney that you hire. Many such agencies provide their services for free.
Here is an example of one http://www.bni-maryland.org/ . In other threads I've provided a similar agency for Arizona, Boston Mass area, etc.

rated:
darkhunter said:   As a side note, given that I am very unhappy with my situation now,  how hard is it generally
to get out of a lease early ???  Are these things usually pretty ironclad or if you get a lawyer
can they generally find some technicality to get you out  ????

Not that I have anywhere else to go at the moment but my credit is outstanding.
I could buy if I wanted to, but its very much a sellers market right now, so little inventory
and Sky high prices. That's a whole different story. I could rent somewhere else
but really can't afford to pay two rents at once, new place and pay him out till years end.

But I will be honest, I do not feel comfortable with him as my landlord any longer.
Maybe I sound like a pussy, and no I don't think he is going to show up and stab me,
but just a general, I do not want to live with this kinda tension and hate.

  

What state are you in?

Usually you can get out of a lease by telling the landlord you want out.    You're liable to pay any rent while the place is vacant.   But they have a responsibility to rerent it and not just let it sit vacant.    After its rented then you're off the hook.     But... it does depend on state law, some states don't make the landlord find a replacement.

 

rated:
I can almost see how the LL went off on you. You are now very melodramatic and over the top. So you're gonna move bc someone raised their voice to you and told you to read your lease, and youre responsible for what sounds like a minor repair. All the while you are so chill with everything, that other issues with the house dont bother you, but it appears that you dont like to be disturbed by people ( i.e. your LL coming over to maintain and update). Listen it may not be entirely your fault but nobody expects to install a door and then have it fall out in short order. Could have just as easily been pushed, so unless you have a wind report for the day and a picture of the nails used to install, accept it for what it is and move on. You know, those picture frame nails!

rated:
Check if your state has a tenant union or tenant advocacy group and talk to them about what happened. They will know the state specific laws and can advise you on how to proceed.

IMO, you are not liable for any damages, and the landlord was in the wrong. However, there is a lot of confusion and emotion in your posting and it will be detrimental to you getting a positive outcome.

Best of luck.

rated:
JaxFL said:   I can almost see how the LL went off on you. You are now very melodramatic and over the top. So you're gonna move bc someone raised their voice to you and told you to read your lease, and youre responsible for what sounds like a minor repair. All the while you are so chill with everything, that other issues with the house dont bother you, but it appears that you dont like to be disturbed by people ( i.e. your LL coming over to maintain and update). Listen it may not be entirely your fault but nobody expects to install a door and then have it fall out in short order. Could have just as easily been pushed, so unless you have a wind report for the day and a picture of the nails used to install, accept it for what it is and move on. You know, those picture frame nails!
  
Well I know you can always count on people on the internet to try and put you in your place 

Am I a bit emotional at the moment? yeah I was, it was a fresh incident that just happened and it was just very unexpected.
I do need to sleep on it and take some time, I'm not here packing boxes and getting ready to move out or anything.

It was just a very shocking very out of no where kinda thing. I am not perfect, no human is. I have been in arguments
with people before, probably because at times I was the one in the wrong. This was just extremely blindsiding.
I saw, and still do not see a single reason for the crazy amount of aggression shown, its not even just the yelling
it was this belittling god complex kinda attitude that's hard to explain. I did not raise my voice to him, I never said
I would not pay, at one point I even flat out asked him "why are you so angry? what did I say or do?" he could
not even answer that and just screamed at me that I am not listening. I mean jeez just sit down and talk to me like
a human for crying outloud. I mean his handyman was standing right there already getting to work on the door right
beside us as all this is going down. He just kept quiet and I do not blame him this landlord gives him a lot of work, he
smartly keeps quiet. But I mean I am super reasonable if he had said ok this is gonna be $50 for example, I probably
would have said, okay that sounds reasonable and went and got him a check and this all would have been taken
care of. Again talk to me like a human. Even though it sounds as if I am not responsible I probably would
have paid up cause that's just how I am, just show me a tiny ounce of respect and talk to me for crying out loud.

again according to some of the replies here it honestly sounds like I am NOT responsible for the door. It was wind, it was
an act of god or whatever, and it's his problem. Now we will see what happens, maybe I will pay for it to keep the peace
but it sounds like it was more than reasonable for me to simply and politely ask a couple questions.

I was supposed to what? just shut up and say yes master anything you say? I mean what do you guys honestly expect ?

Also I think its been established now that he did a shit job of installing the door to begin with. That's probably
the real reason this all happened, he just does not want to admit it. Someone else already said screws should
have been used.

I should have taken pictures and video and documented everything, yes that was stupid of me. I guess always cover
your ass cause you never know what will happen. I just never in my wildest dreams expected him to get so bent out of shape.

Had I known that honestly I just regret not fixing the damn door myself. No I am not super Handy but just buy and replace
the closer and hammer in some new huge big nails, cause that's all it looks like he did. Nothing fancy about it. Obviously in
hindsight that's what I should have done, just took care of it myself and he would have never known. But hey too late now.
Everything in good old hindsight....

rated:
You say fast forward but you don't. WTF?

rated:
While i was intrigued at the start of this, each reply becoming a novel has lost my interest. Im out.

rated:
darkhunter said:   
JaxFL said:   I can almost see how the LL went off on you. You are now very melodramatic and over the top. So you're gonna move bc someone raised their voice to you and told you to read your lease, and youre responsible for what sounds like a minor repair. All the while you are so chill with everything, that other issues with the house dont bother you, but it appears that you dont like to be disturbed by people ( i.e. your LL coming over to maintain and update). Listen it may not be entirely your fault but nobody expects to install a door and then have it fall out in short order. Could have just as easily been pushed, so unless you have a wind report for the day and a picture of the nails used to install, accept it for what it is and move on. You know, those picture frame nails!
  


again according to some of the replies here it honestly sounds like I am NOT responsible for the door. It was wind, it was
an act of god or whatever, and it's his problem. Now we will see what happens, maybe I will pay for it to keep the peace
but it sounds like it was more than reasonable for me to simply and politely ask a couple questions.
 

  This is the problem with your story.  The wind very selectively took the door down, but nothing else was affected by this "wind".  Wind usually doesn't bring down a brand new installed storm door.  I can see how he would be pissed.  He is trying to fix his house and updated based on 10-15 years of disrepair by the previous owner, and it gets broken right away.  My guess is that the frequent trips to the house are because he is finding things that are broken that you are not reporting and the longer they stay broken, the more costlier it is to repair in the long run.  For example, the roof part of your story, maybe he saw water damage that you should have reported, but now the replacement is more expensive since it wasn't taken care off right away.  Put yourself in his shoes and see if you believe the wind, such a strong wind, just attacked the door and nothing else.  Would you buy that story?

rated:
How about pics of the door? My guess is that it wasn't installed right. I skipped through lots of the posts so might have missed that bit. Usually you have some chain that stops the door from whipping back. Just the door closer sometimes isn't strong enough. They go for around $80-$120 for the door for a cheap one and can go up to $500 or more for a nice one.

rated:
MilleniumBuc said:   
darkhunter said:   
JaxFL said:   I can almost see how the LL went off on you. You are now very melodramatic and over the top. So you're gonna move bc someone raised their voice to you and told you to read your lease, and youre responsible for what sounds like a minor repair. All the while you are so chill with everything, that other issues with the house dont bother you, but it appears that you dont like to be disturbed by people ( i.e. your LL coming over to maintain and update). Listen it may not be entirely your fault but nobody expects to install a door and then have it fall out in short order. Could have just as easily been pushed, so unless you have a wind report for the day and a picture of the nails used to install, accept it for what it is and move on. You know, those picture frame nails!
  


again according to some of the replies here it honestly sounds like I am NOT responsible for the door. It was wind, it was
an act of god or whatever, and it's his problem. Now we will see what happens, maybe I will pay for it to keep the peace
but it sounds like it was more than reasonable for me to simply and politely ask a couple questions.

  This is the problem with your story.  The wind very selectively took the door down, but nothing else was affected by this "wind".  Wind usually doesn't bring down a brand new installed storm door.  I can see how he would be pissed.  He is trying to fix his house and updated based on 10-15 years of disrepair by the previous owner, and it gets broken right away.  My guess is that the frequent trips to the house are because he is finding things that are broken that you are not reporting and the longer they stay broken, the more costlier it is to repair in the long run.  For example, the roof part of your story, maybe he saw water damage that you should have reported, but now the replacement is more expensive since it wasn't taken care off right away.  Put yourself in his shoes and see if you believe the wind, such a strong wind, just attacked the door and nothing else.  Would you buy that story?

  
I can understand your point of view and why you or the landlord would think something like that but its just really not the case. I mean look we did not have a tornado, no nothing else was damaged.
But for whatever reason it was just some odd swirling wind and we were opening the door and it just took it right away from us bending it back. I guess given how crazy it was we needed to more slowly
open it up with both hands, its just one of those things you are not used to happening (nothing like this has ever happened before) and you are not expecting. Its one of those things that's just
an honest mistake, and even though it sounds like its not my responsibility, I will probably pay for it.

Sadly I did not take any pics or anything, but understand I was not expecting to make some fatwallet post about it, I never knew
this would turn into such an issue.

I do think the job was done extremely poorly to begin with, no there was no chain at all, though he put one up now.
Honestly I think he knows poor work was done, but this guy is just one of those people who would never admit he is wrong.

Because even though he is yelling at me and saying Dave (the handyman) is the best guy in town (he is oddly attached to this guy)
he sure did the installation differently this time ....  So if it was so great last time then why did he do it differently (better) now.
He atleast used proper nails (even though it sounds like it should be screws instead of nails) and added a chain this time.

You guys have to understand too, as much backstory that I gave, and even that was a mistake I guess, people think this is
all too long, I should have gotten straight to the door part, but even with all that, you all still don't even know the whole history.

All these so called "updates" he does around the house, much of it is what I truly believe to be half assed work.
That's one reason why you all feel like I came off as some ungrateful person because he updates.
The reality is many of these updates have made things WORSE and made our lives harder, but I can't keep
stating enough that I NEVER complained and have bit my tongue every time and kissed this guys ass.

I'll give one example, one was new interior bedroom door. Again the old ones were FINE and were were not asking for new
and you all accuse me of being over dramatic but don't act like the house is going to fall down
if he does not put on some new bedroom doors, that's over dramatic. The only difference is the new ones are I guess "prettier" or "fancier"
But the old ones, they actually shut, which is the purpose of the door, is it not?
or are we all just too caught up in vanity and looks these days ?

Him and dave did a drug out half assed job on them. I wont overflow this post
with too many details but most of them don't even close without a ton of force
I have had to sand them down myself so many times.

There are so many more examples and its not just me that is thinking these things.
I talked to two other people that rent from this landlord and they all think that this "Dave"
guy does very poor work. Again super nice guy, I do not mean to attack him, as a person
he, unlike the landlord, seems great, but I am not the only one unhappy with his work.

Still again despite my dis-satisfaction I cannot stress enough that I have always seemed grateful
and happy for any of the work done and been nothing but nice to the landlord. He has never had
one single reason to justify going off on me the way he did.

We have lived here a very long time and always take care of the house like it was our own.
I guess anyone would say that but I truly feel like we are great tenants who any landlord would
be thrilled to have compared to the crazy people out there you could get stuck with.
We do not party, we don't have people over, we are quiet, we take care of a place and we
have never paid late. What more do you want out of someone ? And we gave him free reign
to come to the house whenever and do whatever updates he wanted even though we were not
necessarily that happy with some of them or the work done. Honestly what more could
a landlord ask for ??? Like seriously guys what else do you want me doing here ?

If I am a "bad" renter then damn I actually do bad for the landlord, what a shitty job he has.
Because I can't imagine how he deals with the actual bad people out there, which I suspect is maybe
playing into this too. I can't help but think maybe he just had some bad experiences with some other
tenants lately and is taking it out on me just assuming anyone who rents is a low life asshole.
Cause that's basically how he came off.

Oh well, I do not think much good can come out of this thread any longer.
All I really wanted to know was if I was responsible for it or not.
Sounds like I am probably not, but in the end I will probably just pay.
It all depends I suppose, I just have to wait and see what kinda bill he sends
or if he even does send a bill. Maybe he was just having a bad week and has taken
some time to cool down and is sorry for his actions even if he will probably never admit it.

Skipping 19 Messages...
rated:
I can assure you he will not be sending a team of lawyers (or even 1 lawyer) after you to try and squeeze a $50 repair bill out of you. Lawyers are expensive, do the math.

At this point you don't even have a bill from him.

Theres noting for you to do other than wait and see what happens.

You're reasonable to be concerned that this relationship has turned sour and he might try and make your life difficult. Its also a reasonable precaution for you to take photo/video record of the rentals current condition.   On the other hand it may amount to nothing.  If you keep your nose clean there isn't a lot he can legally do to you other than kind of being a jerk.
But again, theres really nothing else for you to do but to wait and see what happens.

You've no need to live in fear or lock yourself in a safe room at this point.

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